Hi readers! Yesterday in my post I mentioned that I had taken ease out of the bottom center front of my bodice, and tapered up to the neckline, creating a new center front. (Edit: I should mention again that the reason I took out excess at the waistline this way was that I found wearing a corset required special fitting at the waist. Taking out from the side seams--which should be your first option for removing waistline excess--only caused horizontal pulls.) Of course, this created a new grainline. A commenter asked, "How much do you think you can take out of the CF and not effect the grain line of the bodice?"
Well, that's an interesting question that has a complicated answer. I'll give you my thoughts and you can let me know if you think I'm an idiot. (I know some of you aren't shy about that!)
First, you are definitely affecting the grainline anytime you alter center front like this. Hence, you have to re-establish the grainline. Your new line becomes the new straight-of-grain. It's not unusual to have to re-establish the grainline after making pattern alterations.
What you have to consider is whether or not you're skewing the rest of the pattern by re-establishing center front. For instance, in my change, pivoting the pattern causes the shoulder to move further outward. (Just imagine, if you were laying the bodice front out on fabric to cut, how you would have to turn the pattern to make the change I made.) This, in turn, caused some gaping at the neckline. My first thought was to fix the gaping by moving that excess into the neckline dart. However! The smarter thing to do would be to move the shoulder in by the amount that I took out at center front. (Thanks to commenter Mrs. C who pointed this out!) So my next change would look like this:
So! I guess my answer to the question is that you can take out however much you want at center front (within reason), as long as you consider the effects in other parts of the bodice and adjust accordingly.
An aside: Another way to re-establish the grainline anytime is to fold the side edges of the bodice piece together and crease at the fold. The fold is your new grainline. I learned that at FIT, so it's totally legit, I swear.
Readers, what do you think?
If you take in the shoulders, how would that affect the measurement at the waist? You tapered the CF to take in the waist, not the top. I'm confused.
ReplyDeleteIt's because that move at the waist shifts the bottom of the pattern to the right, which makes the top of the pattern (shoulder) swing out to the left in a pivoting motion. If you try this with a pattern piece on the center fold of a piece of fabric, you'll see what I mean. :)
DeleteIt appears that your pattern has a bust dart (separate from the waist dart.) It might have two bust darts, one in the shoulder and one in the side. Why not just take in the waist dart the amount you have tilted the CF at the waist. That way, you don't change the grainline, but you still take in the waist to fit your corset. Wouldn't that work?
DeleteI think if I were making this adjustment, I would have tapered the sides in and moved the darts if needed. Or maybe I would have just made the darts a bit bigger, depending on how the bust was fitting.
ReplyDeleteThe rather bold move of taking the difference out of the center means the bottom of the front will have a slight "V" to it, and the neckline will have a bit of a peak at the center. Very small issues, but you may want to consider them along with the shoulder adjustment.
I rather envy you attending FIT. Makes me want to move to New York, just a bit.
I would normally do that too but I found that doesn't work well on a corseted waistline. The corset creates excess fabric at cf for some reason and taking in the sides causes horizontal pulls.
DeleteInteresting. Maybe your next book will be about lingerie. With patterns and discussions on how different foundations affect the garments that go with them. No pressure though, just a suggestion. ;}
DeleteIt's posts like this that make it clear to me how very very little I actually know about sewing....:)
ReplyDeleteLisa, that's probably the fault of my writing, not your sewing :)
DeleteOh absolutely not. I am still learning. :)
DeleteMay I expound on your last statement? (I just finished Patternmaking II at FIT and can confirm that it is totally legit).... For pattern pieces where the CB/CF is placed on the fold the principle is the same (fold side edges of the bodice piece together and crease at the fold), however you don't fold the pattern piece because it is a half pattern piece and will be cut with the CF/CB on the fold of the fabric, which should be on grain.
ReplyDeleteAlso worth noting.... in class my dress form was a size 14 (bossomy!) and my bodice draft had a LOT of bias in the one of my vertical dart legs. My professor advised me to always pattern some sort of princess seam or additinal dart shaping to eliminate torque/drag in the dart seams. Whenever I made a two piece bodice front with a princess seam I used the fold method to re-establish the grainline of the side front piece.
Thanks for this! How did you like patternmaking II? I took the first one, but haven't gotten around to taking the second!
DeleteI liked it alot but two days a week for 7 weeks was very intense! Professor L Pascal is really great, I highly recommend her. I posted a bunch of photos of my muslins on my instagram.
Delete*Swoosh!*
ReplyDeleteThat was all of this flying over my head. I think I need to learn a lot about drafting.
Question (sorry!): I get the shifting the shoulder/neckline.. but I don't understand (or I cannot picture in my mind) this..
ReplyDeleteQuote: "An aside: Another way to re-establish the grainline anytime is to fold the side edges of the bodice piece together and crease at the fold. The fold is your new grainline." unquote
I'm confused by that statement too! Everything else I get!
DeleteSorry that was unclear! Basically you're just folding a piece of paper in half and making a crease on the fold. So fold the bodice piece in half so that the center front and the side seam meet perfectly. Make sure you get a good crease line on the fold. Open the pattern piece back up and use a ruler to draw a line along the crease. That's your grainline.
DeleteDid that help or did I make it worse? :)
Hi there dearest Gertie,
DeletePhew..............I was not picturing the FIT aside that you wrote.
Posted on your FB page, saying I am being silly/thick and then came here.
I get it now, so thank you so much for the explanation.I am so relieved and will write this one down. Thank you so much for the great tip.
I think this is what used to be referred to as over correction. I think laces on a corset were to correct these kinds of problem .
ReplyDeleteHi! Could you explain what you mean? What used to be referred to as over correction--my method? And what kinds of problems would laces on a corset fix? Sorry if I'm being dense here.
DeleteOk, I try to be a silent bystander, but I need to put my two cents in about pattern corrections that I am hearing in the above comments. As long as you analyze the problem it is really, just a lot of common sense, rather than skills (well, for the most part). Pattern alterations should not discourage you from taking on certain projects or expanding your knowledge. Give it a try and go with it. Try it out and see if it works for you.
ReplyDeleteGertie, I don't think you are an idiot (I wouldn't read your blog if I did). More like brave to post something that will make all of the "experts" come out of the woodwork. Truth be told for every pattern alteration there are numerous outcomes to achieve the same goal. There is no definite right way, and if someone proclaims to know as such I would run very far away.
That said here's my "expert :)" opinion on the grainline- Unless you are styling stripes or working with bias, keep the grainline parallel to the CF and make adjustments as necessary.
"Unless you are styling stripes or working with bias, keep the grainline parallel to the CF and make adjustments as necessary."
Delete-This made this whole thing click for me. Thanks!
Well said! There are so many different ways to achieve certain results that it comes down to what you are most comfortable with. If it works for you, you did it right. I have my ways of doing things, but I am always open to hearing about possibly more efficient or more intuitive ways of doing things.
DeleteThank you for your thoughts, Suzy!
DeleteI think one should bear in mind that a too drastic change of the grainline can produce unwanted effects. Here this is not the case because the change is not so great, but let me try to give an example: If you had a piece that is cut on the bias, took the "... you can take out however much you want at center front (within reason) ..." literally (picky as I am :-) ) and took A LOT out of the top center front because of a REALLY gaping neckline, the piece would shift on the grainline so much that it finally would be cut straight. In the end, the stretchy bias would be no more existent - and reversely, a straight cut might turn stretchy.
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree, and that would be an example of this change skewing the pattern too much. At that point, one would need to look into other options, definitely!
DeleteHi Gertie, you inspire readers from New Zealland, and your blog is inspiring, as is your Craftsy classes. Sometimes the best fix on your pattern works for what you are trying to achieve, for your body or for your corset in this case! I would normally work with the dart, rather than CF, but what you are saying makes absolute sense in this case! Keep blogging!
ReplyDeleteI agree, both to your adjustment and to your reasoning, things are never as black and white as many pattern books suggest with their 'thou shalt always' instructions. Well done !
ReplyDeleteMy two cents worth is that adjustments need to consider the fabric properties, how much skew or bias movement each fabric has as well. The adjustment for a firm stable weave woven would not work on a softer and more supple looser weave where the warp and weft yarns move I. Relation to each other.
I like the idea of retaining the relationship of shoulder angle to centre front and believe that the grain can be anywhere that gives you the effect you want - or at least that is what I teach my students.
"the grain can be anywhere that gives you the effect you want"
DeleteAmen! I attended some lectures on the work of Charles James, and learning that he would play around with grain until he got the effect that he wanted was eyeopening and inspiring!
Thanks for bringing that up!
Fantastico!! :) It's going to be sooo preety!! :) And it does make so much sense to change the CF with a corset like you have, as the corset will be making your CF waist taper in a little more than usual, and so to get the flat fabric to sit flat around the new 'inverted cone' the adjustments need to be spaced out over the width of the front - CF, dart and side. Sometimes working on the flat pattern with the usual adjustments, it's easy to forget we are very 3-D, and not made of flat surfaces like an origami person! hehehe
ReplyDeleteReading this caused me to have a, "well, duh!" moment. Of course you would have to move the center front and reestablish the grain line.
ReplyDeleteHowever, this is also why my garments will always have that "homemade" look to them. I would have nipped in the side seams and then wondered why the center front was still all bunched up, after all, hadn't I fixed the excess material problem?
The more I learn, the more I realize all that I don't know but you give me confidence to keep trying! Thanks G!
In my limited pattern making experience I would say what you have done it just fine. Every body is different and adjustments are therefore very individual. I use any pattern alteration book as a guide but in the end the best fit for you can only be made by sewind a toile.
ReplyDeleteAnd for all those beginners out there don't be scared. It's actually eadier than you think. Make the toile then put it on your body and pin exactly where tbe changes need to be make. After transfering tje changes to you paper pattern if you are still worried do another toile. The best lessons I always learnt about pattern alterations were through trial and error.
Thank you again Gertie for sharing your process!
I find that dresses with a lot of princess seams in the bodice are easier to fit to your corseted waist shape as you can take a little from each seam without disturbing the grainline and you get a really snug fit. I know that won't help with your dress...just saying!
ReplyDeleteI have not much experience in pattern drafting or fitting patterns, but I wonder if the grainline matters when you cut the pattern piece on the fold? While cutting the pattern piece on the fold it is already on grain, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteYes, cutting the piece on fold means that the cut edge being center front/center back also represents the grainline. So, your thought process is perfectly correct!
DeleteMany thanks, indigorchid!
DeleteI've actually done this exact thing only I do it on the center back piece because I've often had gaping at the back of the neck (good posture? lol) It works great, and I would guess the same would be true for the front :)
ReplyDeleteGreat blog! Do visit my blog if you like :)
ReplyDeletefollow on GFC?
I was wondering about the darts. In the picture it looks like they're parallel to the original CF - so should you adjust them too to be parallel to the new CF?
ReplyDeleteI am also curious about the bust dart:
ReplyDeleteAre the bust points now closer together? Did you need to re-align the darts to make them 'on grain' by pivoting them out from the bust point?
I have always understood that you maintain the grain of fabric when altering a pattern and that it is necessary to "true-up" the original grain if your alteration changed any part of it. The lengthwise grain is the strongest and should run perpendicular to the body. However, if you decided to use a striped or plaid fabric in an interesting way, you could cu those pieces on the crosswise or true-bias grains either by using a gridded ruler or by folding the pattern piece in half, so that the grainline arrows are on top of each other, creasing the fold, and the foldline is your new crosswise grain. Using a gridded ruler, you can then draw a 45-degree line through the center and create the true-bias grainline. (I don't know if this is the tip from FIT that you were explaining) The changes you have made to the center front grain shift that entire bodice to a slightly bias grain which will affect the way the bodice drapes and the shaping and easing of the neckline, armscye etc. The shoulder alteration is a separate issue, unrelated to the waistline. My suggestion would be to evenly take-out the excess fabric through the CF darts and the side seams.
ReplyDeleteHi Gertie, thank you for your brilliant blog. Did you consider adding an extra dart between sideseam and original dart, plus making orginal dart a little wider (1 cm or so) at waist? That would take care of the excess width while maintaining original grainline. The disadvantage is another sewing line on the bodice which you may want to avoid working with lace or for aestethic reasons.../ Carina, Sweden
ReplyDeleteI've just found your amazing blog and I've started reading it from the beginning! I fell in love with the Burda Skirt Pattern 8155 and went to my local fabric shop this morning to buy it. Not only was it in stock, today was also the start of their 45% off discount period for Burda patterns. I think I am meant to make the skirt!
ReplyDeleteI have your book on pre order from Amazon and can't wait to read it.
Love from Linda,
(currently experiencing Olympic fever in the United Kingdom)