Just the thing you were looking for, right?
I get so excited when I read vintage pattern instructions and they call for something really obscure. A great example would be this McCall's pattern that I bought last year because I loved the neckline.
I haven't made it yet, but I did read through the envelope copy and instructions. (Yes, that's what I do for fun, okay?) You'll see on the back of the envelope that the pattern description and notions call for "zig zag wire stays." Have you ever heard of such a thing?
I hadn't, so I was very interested to see how the pattern incorporated these stays. Late in the construction process, when the bodice is finished and has been attached to the skirt, the stays get hand stitched inside the neckline, right on top of the facing.
Isn't that interesting? I would think they would get sandwiched between the facing for comfort. (Maybe they're on top so they can be easily removed for washing the dress?)
The facings don't call for interfacing, so the wires would provide all the support for that crisp neckline. (There's a lot of interfacing elsewhere in the dress: the midriff, the collar, and--a bit oddly, I think--the entire slim skirt are fully interfaced.)
Anyway, I assumed that these stays weren't something one could find anymore. But then I came across some! On Richard the Thread, you can buy these stays in packs of 100, in 3" and 7" lengths. (I wonder what you would need 100 of these for?) Richard the Thread is pretty theater-focused, so perhaps this something used in costuming. Any costumers out there familiar with them?
P.S. Also, you should check out Richard the Thread for lots of other great stuff, like nice corset brocades and BIG sheets of wax tracing paper.
Those of you in the UK can buy these here (although rather pricey, I think):
ReplyDeletehttp://www.venacavadesign.co.uk/Products/Zig_Zag_Wires.html
Interesting, never heard of those before! I do love the look of that dress, the shapes of the bodice and neckline are lovely
ReplyDeleteI never heard of those, but I believe that the dress would look just fine without them. And this pattern is fabulous, I love both versions and you really should go and try it out!
ReplyDeleteWow, that neckline IS fabulous and with the kimono sleeves it'd be pretty straightforward (famous last words). I'll have to remember it.
ReplyDeleteI guess it solves that annoying problem where the collar constantly flops open so you can see the facing. Can imagine them wiggling them way out through the fabric and causing painful collarbone scratches though!
ReplyDeleteI love that neckline combined with loose elbow length sleeves!
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking about confort... do you think it can be confortable?? never heard of those before...
ReplyDeleteI've seen the zig zag stays used in Edwardian high-necked blouses.
ReplyDeleteLike Vanessa, I've also seen these used on the collars of Victorian/Edwardian high-necked blouses and bodices. The were quite common for that. I feel like I've seen them elsewhere on clothing of that time period (I spend a lot of time with museum historical dress collections - old clothes, lol) but can't remember exactly where. I also want to say that the ones I've seen were covered with silk thread, like fur hooks, but can't be quite sure. If the ones available today are not thread-covered, I don't see why you couldn't hand-stitch them to the inside of the facing for comfort, either before or after finishing the neckline.
ReplyDeleteLooks like it's the full skirt that would be interfaced. An interfacing (and we're talking fabric, yes, not that awful "non-woven interfacing" stuff?) would give a skirt structure and volume--very sculptural.
ReplyDeleteThe full skirt would have deep folds, not the softness of a full skirt with a crinoline. Actually, this might be kind of fun to try, and cooler and less scratchy to wear than a crinoline. Oh, how I loved full dresses as a child, and how miserable and itchy I felt most of the time I wore them!! I wonder if the interfaced skirt might be difficult to sit in?
Yes the first thing I thought was they would be perfect to hide between the neck and facing! How odd to have it on the outside (of the inside) when we put so much effort into covering, padding, and hiding every other structural addition.
ReplyDeleteMetal! Pointy! Ow!
Do you think you will try them?
Farthingale's sells them individually:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.farthingalescorsetmakingsupplies.com/products.php?cat=zig-zag
I too have seen them on Edwardian necklines. Just photographed a pair on the high neckline of a ~1910 lace collar set this week actually. Never seen them on something that late though.
ReplyDelete-Chole
Love old fashioned notions!
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that I have a 1960 Butterick pattern with an almost identical bodice option (set-in sleeves instead of kimono but same midriff section and surplice upper bodice) and that doesn't call for zig-zag stays. Instead a popper is used because, even with interfacing, the surplice front flops open.
I can't imagine they're terribly comfortable, perhaps if they'd stayed fashionable a plastic version might have been created.
Maybe you could improvise a little pocket for the stays inside the facing. Then you could slip 'em out before washing, then slip 'em back in to wear (assuming that's the reason they're sewn outside the facing). That would be much easier than ripping them off and then sewing them back on whenever it needs a wash.
ReplyDeleteNever heard of those stays, but they are really interesting. I do suppose they would have to be taken out for cleaning, so having them on top of the facing would work well.
ReplyDeleteRichard the Thread is to die for!! My son requested a completely authentic Civil War era outfit to wear for his annual visit to Gettysburg in the fall. This website can help - thanks!
This is such an unbelievably timely post, since in the mail today I just received these which were admittedly an impulse purchase, but one that I'm hoping will help me realize the 1930s winter coat of my dreams. Please let us know how your work with these stays turns out, whatever you may learn along the way! I am always fascinated by interesting, esoteric notions anyway.
ReplyDeleteDoes seam really odd outside the facing in this case though, I agree. I like Annie's idea of making a little pocket to enclose them!
Our couture class used Richard the Threads for our spiral boning and coutil for the corselettes of our cocktail dresses. We placed one order and a classmate drove down to pick it up. I think a bunch of intermediate students decided they were going to make corsets just for fun and placed an order with them, too.
ReplyDeleteBecause they are costuming oriented (and this is Los Angeles so there is A LOT of costuming going on here), you basically buy in bulk when you deal with them.
They were very helpful and had good prices for their supplies.
Jennifer/Pintucks might have something to add...I don't know if she's (or her students) dealt with them or not.
Hi, note the waist of the straight skirt has pleats and it is drawn standing out quite a bit? That was the shape and vilene interfacing was the solution to make it. And have it keep its shape. I don't think this shape has ever really had a renaissance like other retro styles have.
ReplyDeleteI love seeing how things are made.
ReplyDeleteDo you think you'll make it?
It would be interesting to see how it fits with and without the metal stays. The bodice looks like it might be kind of loose across the collar bones and maybe the stays hold better than a facing.
oo now that's interesting I've not heard about these or come across them before, be nice to see how the dress looks with and with-out them :) x
ReplyDeleteWhat a great vintage pattern!
ReplyDeleteWhile Im not familiar with "zig-zag" stays, we do use a lot of stays in ballet costume bodices. I think the easiest way to make a little casing for the stays (so you can remove them for washing) is to use hem tape. Just stitch it right to the facing, leaving the top open so they can easily slide in and out.
buy a pack of 100, make a killing selling them two at a time!
ReplyDeleteFarthingales also carries them: https://www.farthingalescorsetmakingsupplies.com/products.php?cat=zig-zag
ReplyDeleteI haven't used them, but I can see how they would work very well for that neck line.
I have an early 1940's bustier with these in! I thought them unusual at the time! I enjoyed this post.
ReplyDeleteI agree that it would be fairly easy to make a small pocket to put these in. As for comfort, considering what the undergarments of the time were, these seem like they'd be a minor irritation. Especially since the collar isn't held right next to the skin tightly.
ReplyDeleteVery cool! Now I'll know what they are, but will make my own. Since I dabble in scrapbooking, I have a paper crimper that if you run a small wire through it, produces that exact shape. Fabulous!
ReplyDeleteYep, used in costumes, mostly for high collars-- Victorian, Elizabethan types. Interesting use of it in this pattern.
ReplyDeleteZig Zag wire stays come in a variety of lengths, and are indeed usually used in Theatre costuming.
ReplyDeleteMost often, they support a high collar at the back neck, and sides.
But they are often used in other areas, where a ridgeline support would be too heavy or visible. Places like wings on collars, and areas that must remain crisp, such as the neckline on this bodice.
Richard the Thread is a perfect supplier for items such as this.